Columbus Templar cross on his sails!!??

[IEJ]

"the sails of Columbus' ships were emblazoned with the Templar cross."

"The Portuguese Templars simply changed their name - like a modern business
might change its name in order to avoid previous debts. They became the
Knight of Christ, who later became famous for their explorations in Africa
and the West Indies. The famous King Henry the Navigator was a known Grand
Master of the Order, and explorers like Vasco da Gama were members.
Christopher Columbus' father-in-law was a Grand Master, and Columbus sailed
across the Atlantic with the familiar Templar cross emblazoned on his sails.
The Order of Christ survived until 1830's"
http://www.veling.nl/anne/templars/lives.html

". The great Portuguese explorer Vasco da Gama journeyed with the Templar
cross insignia on his sails, as did Christopher Columbus. "
http://www.tylwythteg.com/templar.html

"Christopher Columbus' navigators were members of the extant Portuguese
Templar Order, and the Templar cross was featured prominently on the sails
of his ships in 1492."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar

Your thoughts appreciated.

Inger E

[Alaca]

Post by IEJ
"the sails of Columbus' ships were emblazoned with the Templar cross."
"The Portuguese Templars simply changed their name - like a modern
business might change its name in order to avoid previous debts. They
became the Knight of Christ, who later became famous for their
explorations in Africa and the West Indies. The famous King Henry the
Navigator was a known Grand Master of the Order, and explorers like
Vasco da Gama were members. Christopher Columbus' father-in-law was a
Grand Master, and Columbus sailed across the Atlantic with the
familiar Templar cross emblazoned on his sails. The Order of Christ
survived until 1830's" http://www.veling.nl/anne/templars/lives.html
". The great Portuguese explorer Vasco da Gama journeyed with the
Templar cross insignia on his sails, as did Christopher Columbus. "
http://www.tylwythteg.com/templar.html
"Christopher Columbus' navigators were members of the extant
Portuguese Templar Order, and the Templar cross was featured
prominently on the sails of his ships in 1492."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
Your thoughts appreciated.

I don't believe they would!

Where is the archaeology in this?

[Philip Deitiker]

Post by Alaca

Post by IEJ
"the sails of Columbus' ships were emblazoned with the Templar cross."
"The Portuguese Templars simply changed their name - like a
modern business might change its name in order to avoid
previous debts. They became the Knight of Christ, who later
became famous for their explorations in Africa and the West
Indies. The famous King Henry the Navigator was a known Grand
Master of the Order, and explorers like Vasco da Gama were
members. Christopher Columbus' father-in-law was a Grand
Master, and Columbus sailed across the Atlantic with the
familiar Templar cross emblazoned on his sails. The Order of
Christ survived until 1830's"
http://www.veling.nl/anne/templars/lives.html

Christopher columbus was looking for passage to india, when he came
across the carribean he believed he has found the 'indies'. Today,
even 500 years later Native Americans are falsely called Indians, and
the eastern carribean is known as the 'west indies'. If he had
information that he has hit some place else he might have called it
southern Vinland.

Post by Alaca

Post by IEJ
". The great Portuguese explorer Vasco da Gama journeyed with
the Templar cross insignia on his sails, as did Christopher
Columbus. " http://www.tylwythteg.com/templar.html

Note the below is listed under the section of Myths.

Post by Alaca

Post by IEJ
"Christopher Columbus' navigators were members of the extant
Portuguese Templar Order, and the Templar cross was featured
prominently on the sails of his ships in 1492."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
Your thoughts appreciated.

I don't believe they would!
Where is the archaeology in this?

Did you know that the 3 replicas of Columbus's ships are in Corpus
Christi, Texas?

http://www.cctexas.com/?fuseaction=main.view&page=204

[A shameless plug for the State of Texas, and one of my fishing
holes]

http://www.corpuschristicvb.org/columbusships.htm

Seriously, wouldn't you rather be there than in Linkoping.
Food with flavor and Women with . . . . .

http://www.corpusbeach.com/
http://www.cctexas.com/?fuseaction=main.view&page=1828

Aye, Mira la nina, Santa Maria . . .
--
Philip
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Evol. of Xchrom. http://home.att.net/~DNAPaleoAnth/xlinked.htm

[Doug Weller]

Post by IEJ
"the sails of Columbus' ships were emblazoned with the Templar cross."
"The Portuguese Templars simply changed their name - like a modern business
might change its name in order to avoid previous debts. They became the
Knight of Christ, who later became famous for their explorations in Africa
and the West Indies. The famous King Henry the Navigator was a known Grand
Master of the Order, and explorers like Vasco da Gama were members.
Christopher Columbus' father-in-law was a Grand Master, and Columbus sailed
across the Atlantic with the familiar Templar cross emblazoned on his sails.
The Order of Christ survived until 1830's"
http://www.veling.nl/anne/templars/lives.html

I responded to something about this in another thread. Not just a name
change and it may be the case that none of the Templars were allowed in
the new order. And if you read to the bottom of the url I give below, it
shows that your source is also wrong about what happened to the Order of
Christ.

http://www.templarhistory.com/portugal.html

"Later that year a joint policy was issued between Portugal and
neighboring Castile, which found the Knights Templar innocent of all
crimes on Iberian lands. So it seemed that the Templars would be allowed
to continue in the Iberian territories, unhindered by the long arm of the
Holy See. However, this was not the case, as another Papal bull was issued
in 1312, which hit a little closer to the coffers of the King of Portugal.
Clement's bull, "Ad Providam", which we looked at in chapter one,
bequeathed all Templar holdings to the rival order of St. John. It is at
this point in history, that King Dinis turned from protector of the
Templar knights, to protector of his own political interests. Dinis argued
with the Pope that the lands occupied by the Templars did not truly belong
to the order, but rather they were only granted perpetual use of the
properties. Ownership of the forts, castles and chapels, he asserted,
properly belonged to the Portuguese crown and that crown belonged to King
Dinis himself. It was for this reason and perhaps no other that Dinis
formed his own religious and military order which he named "The Order of
Christ."

Several years after the conversion, on March 14th, 1319, Pope John XXII
issued the papal bull, "Ad ea exquibis", which confirmed the new order of
knighthood. This Pope became the order's patron and interestingly enough
gave it a Cistercian rule, which had also been granted to the Templars two
centuries before. Soon after the papal sanction, the order expanded its
activities into Spain, Italy, Germany and its former home France. All
Templar holdings including the city of Tomar were transferred to the Order
of Christ, which chose the Church of Santa Maria do Castelo as its first
headquarters under the leadership of its first Grand Master, Gil Martins.
Martins had already been the master of the Order of Avis and so was always
a likely candidate to head Dinis' new order. "

Post by IEJ
". The great Portuguese explorer Vasco da Gama journeyed with the Templar
cross insignia on his sails, as did Christopher Columbus. "
http://www.tylwythteg.com/templar.html
"Christopher Columbus' navigators were members of the extant Portuguese
Templar Order, and the Templar cross was featured prominently on the sails
of his ships in 1492."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar
Your thoughts appreciated.
Inger E

[IEJ]

Post by Doug Weller

Post by IEJ
"the sails of Columbus' ships were emblazoned with the Templar cross."
"The Portuguese Templars simply changed their name - like a modern business
might change its name in order to avoid previous debts. They became the
Knight of Christ, who later became famous for their explorations in Africa
and the West Indies. The famous King Henry the Navigator was a known Grand
Master of the Order, and explorers like Vasco da Gama were members.
Christopher Columbus' father-in-law was a Grand Master, and Columbus sailed
across the Atlantic with the familiar Templar cross emblazoned on his sails.
The Order of Christ survived until 1830's"
http://www.veling.nl/anne/templars/lives.html

I responded to something about this in another thread. Not just a name
change and it may be the case that none of the Templars were allowed in
the new order. And if you read to the bottom of the url I give below, it
shows that your source is also wrong about what happened to the Order of
Christ.
http://www.templarhistory.com/portugal.html
"Later that year a joint policy was issued between Portugal and
neighboring Castile, which found the Knights Templar innocent of all
crimes on Iberian lands. So it seemed that the Templars would be allowed
to continue in the Iberian territories, unhindered by the long arm of the
Holy See. However, this was not the case, as another Papal bull was issued
in 1312, which hit a little closer to the coffers of the King of Portugal.
Clement's bull, "Ad Providam", which we looked at in chapter one,
bequeathed all Templar holdings to the rival order of St. John. It is at
this point in history, that King Dinis turned from protector of the
Templar knights, to protector of his own political interests. Dinis argued
with the Pope that the lands occupied by the Templars did not truly belong
to the order, but rather they were only granted perpetual use of the
properties. Ownership of the forts, castles and chapels, he asserted,
properly belonged to the Portuguese crown and that crown belonged to King
Dinis himself. It was for this reason and perhaps no other that Dinis
formed his own religious and military order which he named "The Order of
Christ."
Several years after the conversion, on March 14th, 1319, Pope John XXII
issued the papal bull, "Ad ea exquibis", which confirmed the new order of
knighthood. This Pope became the order's patron and interestingly enough
gave it a Cistercian rule, which had also been granted to the Templars two
centuries before. Soon after the papal sanction, the order expanded its
activities into Spain, Italy, Germany and its former home France. All
Templar holdings including the city of Tomar were transferred to the Order
of Christ, which chose the Church of Santa Maria do Castelo as its first
headquarters under the leadership of its first Grand Master, Gil Martins.
Martins had already been the master of the Order of Avis and so was always
a likely candidate to head Dinis' new order. "

As I wrote the first time I used a quote and ref to that site - only some of
it is accurate to facts from contemporary documents.

And the link to the Templars is the reason why Columbus' navigator, his
brother and probably he himself sailed on the Portugesean King's ship which
not only arrived Iceland but also Greenland and NA(!) in 1477..... the same
Templars and Grey Friar link that goes back to 1100's and the Dynasties of
the Scandinavian Royal Families, same link that made Henry Sinclair apply
for and be accepted as a Jarl for the Norwegian King, same link that
resulted in an intermarriage between the Portugesean Royal Family and the
Danish with the impact of the joint sailing. I refered to documents about
that two or three years ago. It was in one of the Pinning Pothurst
discussions.

Inger E

[Eric Stevens]

On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:45:45 +0100, Doug Weller

Post by Doug Weller

Post by IEJ
"the sails of Columbus' ships were emblazoned with the Templar cross."
"The Portuguese Templars simply changed their name - like a modern business
might change its name in order to avoid previous debts. They became the
Knight of Christ, who later became famous for their explorations in Africa
and the West Indies. The famous King Henry the Navigator was a known Grand
Master of the Order, and explorers like Vasco da Gama were members.
Christopher Columbus' father-in-law was a Grand Master, and Columbus sailed
across the Atlantic with the familiar Templar cross emblazoned on his sails.
The Order of Christ survived until 1830's"
http://www.veling.nl/anne/templars/lives.html

I responded to something about this in another thread. Not just a name
change and it may be the case that none of the Templars were allowed in
the new order.

'May' is the operative word. See
http://www2.vo.lu/homepages/phahn/templars/ which says of this:

"When the Order of the Templars was suspended by the pope, the
king Dinis of Portugal founded the Order of Christ which would
inheritate the possessions of the Templars in his country. It is
contested whether or not the Templars were allowed to enter this
new order."

Other sites make similar comments. It seems that it is not really
known whether or not ex-Templars joined the new order.

--- snip ---



Eric Stevens

[Doug Weller]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 10:21:58 +1200, in sci.archaeology, Eric Stevens

Post by Eric Stevens
On Sun, 26 Jun 2005 19:45:45 +0100, Doug Weller

Post by Doug Weller

Post by IEJ
"the sails of Columbus' ships were emblazoned with the Templar cross."
"The Portuguese Templars simply changed their name - like a modern business
might change its name in order to avoid previous debts. They became the
Knight of Christ, who later became famous for their explorations in Africa
and the West Indies. The famous King Henry the Navigator was a known Grand
Master of the Order, and explorers like Vasco da Gama were members.
Christopher Columbus' father-in-law was a Grand Master, and Columbus sailed
across the Atlantic with the familiar Templar cross emblazoned on his sails.
The Order of Christ survived until 1830's"
http://www.veling.nl/anne/templars/lives.html

I responded to something about this in another thread. Not just a name
change and it may be the case that none of the Templars were allowed in
the new order.

'May' is the operative word. See
"When the Order of the Templars was suspended by the pope, the
king Dinis of Portugal founded the Order of Christ which would
inheritate the possessions of the Templars in his country. It is
contested whether or not the Templars were allowed to enter this
new order."
Other sites make similar comments. It seems that it is not really
known whether or not ex-Templars joined the new order.

Exactly.

Doug

[n***@spammers.of.the.world.unite.com]

Apparently on date Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:12:04 GMT, "IEJ"

Post by IEJ
"the sails of Columbus' ships were emblazoned with the Templar cross."

Can you find an image of this anywhere on the web? I can only find numerous
examples of replicas / paintings where the cross is more like a Cross Flory or
Crosslet, i.e. crosses that aren't like the Templar one at all, excepting them
being "crosses".

None with a Cross Pattee or similar.

[Eric Stevens]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:40:19 GMT,

Post by n***@spammers.of.the.world.unite.com
Apparently on date Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:12:04 GMT, "IEJ"

Post by IEJ
"the sails of Columbus' ships were emblazoned with the Templar cross."

Can you find an image of this anywhere on the web? I can only find numerous
examples of replicas / paintings where the cross is more like a Cross Flory or
Crosslet, i.e. crosses that aren't like the Templar one at all, excepting them
being "crosses".
None with a Cross Pattee or similar.

Between the web and my books I have found every type of cross under
the sun emblazoned on the sails of Columbus's fleet. But none of them
are worth a damn as none of the illustrations are contemporary with
Columbus. Presumably the cross depicted depends on the artist's whim.



Eric Stevens

[n***@spammers.of.the.world.unite.com]

Apparently on date Tue, 28 Jun 2005 09:46:24 +1200, Eric Stevens

Post by Eric Stevens
On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 09:40:19 GMT,

Post by n***@spammers.of.the.world.unite.com
Apparently on date Sun, 26 Jun 2005 15:12:04 GMT, "IEJ"

Post by IEJ
"the sails of Columbus' ships were emblazoned with the Templar cross."

Can you find an image of this anywhere on the web? I can only find numerous
examples of replicas / paintings where the cross is more like a Cross Flory or
Crosslet, i.e. crosses that aren't like the Templar one at all, excepting them
being "crosses".
None with a Cross Pattee or similar.

Between the web and my books I have found every type of cross under
the sun emblazoned on the sails of Columbus's fleet. But none of them
are worth a damn as none of the illustrations are contemporary with
Columbus. Presumably the cross depicted depends on the artist's whim.

There you go, then. If they didn't report at the time "Oh, and he sailed with a
Templar Cross emblazoned on the front sails, odd really, given the order was
illegal and allegedly extinct by then and would have been a huge, occult secret
society at the time" then it is just someone else inventing it later on.