Discussion:
Settlers before Columbus?
(too old to reply)
r***@gmail.com
2020-01-14 17:59:33 UTC
Permalink
HELP! I need to know if anyone has heard of JEWISH or ROMAN settlers On THIS
continent well before Columbus or Ericson. I mean thousands of years ago. My
Brother's Proffessor alluded to recent findings inOhio and Illinois- the
latter one being a population of 100,000 just east of St. Louis! I don't know
and can't find any proof of this. I need help, please
Thank you very much
Jeff
The site you are referring to is Cahokia - a site very near St. Louis
were a number of large earthen mounds currently stand, which may have
had a population over 100,000. However, it is neither thousands of
years old nor Jewish nor Roman - it is an American Indian site from
about a thousand years ago. Before this site (and many others like it
from all over the eastern United States) were actually explored or
excavated, they were attibuted to various types of ancient migrants
from the Old World, most commonly the Lost Tribes of Israel. The
reasons for this are simple - racism and guilt. An extreme version of
the story stated that the Lost Tribes had built great civilizations
here, but they were overrun and exterminated by the "barbarians" who
were living in the sites when Europeans arrived. It became the "duty"
of Europeans to avenge their kin by driving the Indians out. This
story was very convenient for the European invaders - it has also
proven to be entirely false.
Clarissa Hoover
After Dec. 23 ????? (Anyone know a good Internet provider in Topeka, KS?)
Can you put me in touch with Jerzy Zaborski? Thanks.
JTEM
2020-01-15 04:24:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@gmail.com
HELP! I need to know if anyone has heard of JEWISH or ROMAN settlers On THIS
continent well before Columbus or Ericson. I mean thousands of years ago. My
Brother's Proffessor alluded to recent findings inOhio and Illinois- the
latter one being a population of 100,000 just east of St. Louis! I don't know
and can't find any proof of this. I need help, please
Thank you very much
Jeff
The site you are referring to is Cahokia - a site very near St. Louis
were a number of large earthen mounds currently stand, which may have
had a population over 100,000. However, it is neither thousands of
years old nor Jewish nor Roman - it is an American Indian site from
about a thousand years ago. Before this site (and many others like it
from all over the eastern United States) were actually explored or
excavated, they were attibuted to various types of ancient migrants
from the Old World, most commonly the Lost Tribes of Israel. The
reasons for this are simple - racism and guilt. An extreme version of
the story stated that the Lost Tribes had built great civilizations
here, but they were overrun and exterminated by the "barbarians" who
were living in the sites when Europeans arrived. It became the "duty"
of Europeans to avenge their kin by driving the Indians out. This
story was very convenient for the European invaders - it has also
proven to be entirely false.
Clarissa Hoover
After Dec. 23 ????? (Anyone know a good Internet provider in Topeka, KS?)
Can you put me in touch with Jerzy Zaborski? Thanks.
There are various theories regarding ancient western contact with
the Americas, supported by some evidence that most find less than
compelling.

...I just had zero difficulty in finding a slew a "Cites" claiming that
the Aztecs did NOT mistaken the Spanish invaders for gods. Which
clearly means that many people ARE saying this, else there'd be
nothing to supposedly debunk!

Getting deep into this, if the Spanish did look like gods to the Aztecs
then the Aztecs had a cultural memory of gods that looked very
European... which has often been explained as evidence for ancient
contact between the cultures.

There's better evidence.

Ancient Egyptian mummies have tested positive for both tobacco &
cocaine -- two plants indigenous to the Americas. Personally, it seems
clear that the drug testing is extremely flawed, but if we want to
pretend it's 100% accurate then that would require trade. No, not just
a ship wreck or something but actual trade, as these finds occur in
mummies representing very many years...

Although ancient contact was certainly possible -- and the occasional
"Off Course" trip or ship wreck almost certainly brought people to
the Americas -- I doubt VERY much that the Egyptians or even the
Romans would have ventured that far. The Egyptians weren't a sea
power and the Romans weren't fans of the Atlantic.

Now, the Phoenicians? They seem like better candidates, culturally,
but we just don't see the "Evidence" claimed for them the way we
do the Egyptians or even the Romans.





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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/190262709343
George
2020-01-15 19:17:34 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:24:16 -0800 (PST)
Post by JTEM
There are various theories regarding ancient western contact with
the Americas, supported by some evidence that most find less than
compelling.
...I just had zero difficulty in finding a slew a "Cites"
claiming that the Aztecs did NOT mistaken the Spanish invaders for
gods. Which clearly means that many people ARE saying this, else
there'd be nothing to supposedly debunk!
Getting deep into this, if the Spanish did look like gods to the
Aztecs then the Aztecs had a cultural memory of gods that looked very
European... which has often been explained as evidence for ancient
contact between the cultures.
There's better evidence.
Ancient Egyptian mummies have tested positive for both tobacco &
cocaine -- two plants indigenous to the Americas. Personally, it seems
clear that the drug testing is extremely flawed, but if we want to
pretend it's 100% accurate then that would require trade. No, not just
a ship wreck or something but actual trade, as these finds occur in
mummies representing very many years...
Although ancient contact was certainly possible -- and the occasional
"Off Course" trip or ship wreck almost certainly brought people to
the Americas -- I doubt VERY much that the Egyptians or even the
Romans would have ventured that far. The Egyptians weren't a sea
power and the Romans weren't fans of the Atlantic.
Now, the Phoenicians? They seem like better candidates, culturally,
but we just don't see the "Evidence" claimed for them the way we
do the Egyptians or even the Romans.
The tobacco tainted 'mummies' means only one thing to me.
That the archaeology teams that unearthed them were smokers and in the
confines of the tomb they smoked.
And for influence from the sea I can see only one peoples with the
navigational skill and sea going experience to be 'in the frame'
I refer of course to the Polynesians who settled the largest ocean on
Earth
JTEM
2020-01-15 20:24:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
The tobacco tainted 'mummies' means only one thing to me.
That the archaeology teams that unearthed them were smokers and in the
confines of the tomb they smoked.
And for influence from the sea I can see only one peoples with the
navigational skill and sea going experience to be 'in the frame'
I refer of course to the Polynesians who settled the largest ocean on
Earth
And the Polynesians clearly did reach the Americas.

There's no doubt in my mind that Europeans did reach the Americas,
just that they were in tiny numbers and very likely never did it on
purpose.

Trade? Can't see it.




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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/190272426023
Eric Stevens
2020-01-15 23:25:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 20:24:16 -0800 (PST)
Post by JTEM
There are various theories regarding ancient western contact with
the Americas, supported by some evidence that most find less than
compelling.
...I just had zero difficulty in finding a slew a "Cites"
claiming that the Aztecs did NOT mistaken the Spanish invaders for
gods. Which clearly means that many people ARE saying this, else
there'd be nothing to supposedly debunk!
Getting deep into this, if the Spanish did look like gods to the
Aztecs then the Aztecs had a cultural memory of gods that looked very
European... which has often been explained as evidence for ancient
contact between the cultures.
There's better evidence.
Ancient Egyptian mummies have tested positive for both tobacco &
cocaine -- two plants indigenous to the Americas. Personally, it seems
clear that the drug testing is extremely flawed, but if we want to
pretend it's 100% accurate then that would require trade. No, not just
a ship wreck or something but actual trade, as these finds occur in
mummies representing very many years...
Although ancient contact was certainly possible -- and the occasional
"Off Course" trip or ship wreck almost certainly brought people to
the Americas -- I doubt VERY much that the Egyptians or even the
Romans would have ventured that far. The Egyptians weren't a sea
power and the Romans weren't fans of the Atlantic.
Now, the Phoenicians? They seem like better candidates, culturally,
but we just don't see the "Evidence" claimed for them the way we
do the Egyptians or even the Romans.
The tobacco tainted 'mummies' means only one thing to me.
That the archaeology teams that unearthed them were smokers and in the
confines of the tomb they smoked.
And for influence from the sea I can see only one peoples with the
navigational skill and sea going experience to be 'in the frame'
I refer of course to the Polynesians who settled the largest ocean on
Earth
You forget the Peterborough inscription.
--
Eric Stevens

There are two classes of people. Those who divide people into
two classes and those who don't. I belong to the second class.
George
2020-01-16 20:44:13 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 11:32:41 -0800 (PST)
[...]
The true irony here, concerning "Settlers Before Columbus?"
Columbus didn't settle here.
No, he returned to Europe.
:)
I see you've met eric
JTEM
2020-01-16 21:07:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by George
:)
I see you've met eric
Newport Tower was built by Norse explorers. No, I meant Chinese or
the Knights Templar.







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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/190294582858
Peter Jason
2020-01-16 22:17:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
Post by George
:)
I see you've met eric
Newport Tower was built by Norse explorers. No, I meant Chinese or
the Knights Templar.
Rubbish! What about the ALIEN option? After all, they built the
pyramids!
George
2020-01-16 23:10:08 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 17 Jan 2020 09:17:11 +1100
Post by Peter Jason
Post by JTEM
Post by George
:)
I see you've met eric
Newport Tower was built by Norse explorers. No, I meant Chinese or
the Knights Templar.
Rubbish! What about the ALIEN option? After all, they built the
pyramids!
Aliens????
Those Mexicans are everywhere

George
2020-01-16 23:08:21 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 16 Jan 2020 13:07:43 -0800 (PST)
Post by JTEM
Post by George
:)
I see you've met eric
Newport Tower was built by Norse explorers. No, I meant Chinese or
the Knights Templar.
Bingo
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